Skarpion26 is, as implied by his nickname, 26 years old and a scorpio. He is from Baku.
Vusalchik is also from Baku, but is studying in the Ukraine right now. He is 20 years old, "seeking a woman till 40" (oh noes). His "hello phrase" is "Ochen' interesniy i seksualniy paren'" ("A very interesting and sexy young man").
Gagli is from Baku, 28 years old, and writes in the "about me" section: "I think I am very good boy. Of course a little sexy."
badboy_ozgur is also from Baku, and 20 years old. He's looking for girls to chat with. He says: "my name ıs ozgur. ı am from turkey. ı love all gırls."
Ainur, Tinet:
ReplyDeleteQizlar, siz ozlariniz chirayliqsiz.:)
Could you start a second blog, Chiraylig-2 about the beauty of Central Asian girls? I would be an avid reader of that blog. :)
Salom ile,
Qulluq sizge! ;o)
ReplyDeleteWell, we're sorry, but we are really only interested in men ...
Hasrat chekdim jawabingizni oqib. Das ist schade.
ReplyDeleteI know what Ainur means. What does Tinet mean?
We don't know what Tinet means, either. It's supposed to be Tatar, but it doesn't seem to be used outside of the Finnish Tatar community. I don't know if our Tatar relatives even know what it means ...
ReplyDeleteA linguist friend of mine who specializes in Middle Eastern languages once suggested that it might be a diminutive feminine form of a name like Fatin, but that was only a guess.
Or maybe it is related to the Turkish word "tıynet" ('nature, innate character, makeup (of a person)')??
By the way, I think I should start studying Turkish, just to keep my brain active. It's such a beautiful language.
Isiminizni manasini tapish kirakligini anglab, Google ila qidirdim. Here are some results:
ReplyDelete1. Another Tinet. There is another Tinet, from Karelia (which is probably very much like Finland demographically):
http://www.diary.ru/~tinet
You can ask her - maybe she knows.
2. Guys with the answer. If there is an authority on the meaning of Turkic words and names, then these guys are it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Language_Association
You should give them a call. They will be delighted to hear from a Tatar in Finland: Turks of Turkey have much affection for their ethnic cousins.
3. Your tattoos. Being well mannered, I don't usually force strangers to discuss their bodies. But you put your tattoos out there for the world to view. One can't escape them. So, here's a thought: why not get a third one? Your name in Orkhon script. It will look chirayliq and you will have a permanent link to your ancestors. Here's some info on the script: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkhon_script
How did Tatars wind up in Finland? Does it have anything to do with the fact that Finland and Tatarstan were part of the same Russian empire? Or does the migration predates that period?
Perils aplenty if you take up Turkish. Tatar and Turkish are so close that your brain will always be trying to either Turkify your Tatar or Tatarify your Turkish. Which will happen depends on into which language your immerse yourself.
1. Yes, I've seen Tinet's blog. Maybe I will contact her ... It would be interesting if it is her real name. But also if it isn't, it would be interesting where she got it from.
ReplyDeleteThere are several Tinets among our Finnish Tatar relatives, as well. Now mum told me about how they once showed her and dad a "name calendar" with Tatar names and their meanings. Tinet was in it, but it didn't seem to have any meaning written out.
2. Good idea. I might ask them.
3. Heh, don't worry, I will definitely get more tattoos at some point. But not with my name. It was just given to me by my parents, whether I like it or not. They were even as unimaginative as to just take the names from dad's cousins Ainur and Tinet. And anyway, I don't feel any need to make any artificial links to my Tatar and Turkic ancestors through a tattoo - it's enough that some of their blood flows in my veins. :o)
But the orkhon script is indeed very interesting. And good for tattoos. Maybe with a different word ...
Yes, Tatars have been spreading all over Russia since ancient times, and when Finland was part of the Russian Empire 1809-1917, after Russia conquered it from Sweden, many Tatars spread also to Finland. Our Tatar great-grandfather was a travelling salesman from the village Aktuk near Nizhnyi Novgorod. Ainur has written a bit about our Tatar heritage here: http://www.ainurin.net/history/tatarstan.htm
As for learning Turkish, I don't know any Tatar at all, save for a couple of words. Our dad (half-Tatar, half-Finn) never taught us any Tatar, and mum (Finnish/Gypsy) only picked up some naughty words. :oD
So, I don't have anything to confuse it with ...
What a nice and informative discussion! Actually, I have been thinking about a chirayliq-2 about famous and noteworthy Central Asian ladies, after reading about a Tatarka fighter pilot in the Red Army. But I have way too many projects going on already... too bad...
ReplyDeleteI'd love to learn Tatar. It's funny how you can have an emotional relationship to a language you hardly know. When I visited some Tatars in Japan in March, I almost cried when they were speaking Tatar to each other. I don't get that kind of "primitive" reaction from hearing Turkish at all. But there are so many languages to learn that I'm right now only listening to Tatar singing voices, from jazz to rock and rap...
Ainur: Chirayliq-2, if you do it (and you should definitely do it), should emphasize the chirayliq aspect of Turkic ladies. Although, ones with strong professional credentials should be up there too. For example, world's first female combat pilot: Sabiha Gokcen. Or Sevara Nazarkhan, who's becoming popular in the West.
ReplyDeleteIt seems quite common for Tatars from mixed marriages to really hang on to their roots, even if they are merely 25% Tatar. The only exception: if the other 75% (or even 50%) happens to be from another Turkic ethnicity. Then they seem happy to assimilate and adopt the 75% (50%) part as their identity.
Your reaction to hearing Turkish may become more "primitive" if you consider the fact that a Tatar was a major force in the language reform in Turkey. He's mentioned in this article from the Economist:
http://www.mari.ee/eng/articles/soc/2005/12/01.htm
Wikipedia has an extensive entry on him.
Do the Chirayliq-2! Eventually, you can set up a match-making service between Chirayliq and Chirayliq-2.
The second blog will inevitably be a wild success. Central Asians probably have the most diversified gene pool outside Brazil. Diversification is always healthy which is reflected in the strong chirayliq factor. Do the second blog! Work expands to fill up the time allotted to it.
"Eventually, you can set up a match-making service between Chirayliq and Chirayliq-2."
ReplyDeleteWhat an outrageous idea! The very point of Chirayliq-1 is that all the chirayliq yigits shall belong to myself and Ainur only! (Especially İlhan Mansız.)
And besides, may I stress that Chirayliq is not only about Turkic men (though lately they have received a rather disproportionate amount of attention), but also Tajiks, Mongols, Arabs, Persians, Pashtuns, Russians, Jews, Georgians, Fenno-Ugrians, Roma, Armenians, Kurds and anyone else who can be found in the stretches of land "from the Black Sea to Kamchatka, from the Kara Sea to Himalaya".
"It seems quite common for Tatars from mixed marriages to really hang on to their roots, even if they are merely 25% Tatar. The only exception: if the other 75% (or even 50%) happens to be from another Turkic ethnicity. Then they seem happy to assimilate and adopt the 75% (50%) part as their identity."
My theory (and experience) is that it is very easy to let yourself be assimilated by Turkic peoples. If I mention to a Turk that I'm 1/4 Tatar, he or she will instantly embrace me as "family". The same with Tatars.
Another example: I once followed the conversation of a Turkish girl, a Romanian boy and a Hungarian girl, and while the Romanian and the Hungarian were squabbling and rivalling amongst themselves (mostly over Transsylvania, as usual), the Turk just embraced them both, because they all were once part of the great Ottoman empire.
So that may be one explanation to why it is so easy to embrace your Turkic heritage, even if it's only 25% or even less. Because the Turks happily embrace you anyway!
Meanwhile, even though I am quite proud of and interested in my Kale heritage, it is not so easy to be embraced by "fullblooded" Roma. First of all, because they even today are so incredibly segregated from the other part of society everywhere (those who aren't hardly ever speak loudly about their ethnicity), and - whether I like it or not - I am clearly not on their side of that invisible barrier.
As for the Finnish side, I myself don't really have any special interest in it. (It seems to be different for Ainur, though. :o) And Finns hardly recognise me as a "Finn", anyway, because I haven't lived there for very long and I have a weird and scary accent.
"The second blog will inevitably be a wild success. Central Asians probably have the most diversified gene pool outside Brazil. Diversification is always healthy which is reflected in the strong chirayliq factor."
Yes, that is precisely why we are doing this Chirayliq blog with all the incredibly chirayliq men. ;o)
I don't know much at all about what men would consider chirayliq in a woman (well, they seem to like me, so maybe that's a starting point ...). Ainur's comment also reflects that the qualities we as women appreciate in other women are not merely their being pretty, but much more their being fighter pilots, etc.
Maybe Chirayliq-2 should rather be made by a man. Maybe you, Anonymous?
Tinet: Since we've already touched upon your tattoos, I feel perfectly comfortable asking more of personal questions. For example, you say Turks happily embrace your as "family." Do you welcome that embrace? Do you reciprocate? In a more or less "primitive" way? You have the right to remain silent on this. Don't call your lawyer. :)
ReplyDeleteChirayliq-2 should be done by women. Men, being what they are, tend to focus on what makes a woman look sexy. As a result, they completely overlook such aspects of chirayliq as gracefulness and that dignified kind of charm.
Chirayliq-2 should be about Turkic ladies. I'm not being anti- (or pro-) anything. Of course, there are plenty of non-Turkic ethnic groups in Central Asia. I'm sure there are tons of good looking individuals among them. The beauty of their men and women is well represented, as it should be: on the web and in the traditional media of the countries from which their ancestors came. In contrast, Turkic female beauty is virtually unknown in the world. Someone has to celebrate this kind of beauty:
www.youtube.com/
watch?v=hTwDOsjuaro
Also, when I wrote about the genetic diversity, once again, I had in mind one within the Turkic genetic makeup. Once again, I haste to add: that's not an attempt to be against someone else. Rather, it's a thought shared by many Western visitors to the region. See for yourself the visual range of outcomes resulting from the mixing of Indo-European and Altaic DNAs:
www.youtube.com/
watch?v=XxscN1gQxzY
Ainur: Given your interest in the professional accomplishments of the potential ladies of the putative Chiraylik-2, I thought, you might find this interesting (if you can, ignore the obvious political bias of the subtitles):
www.youtube.com/
watch?v=cERbBLM_an0
You have to tell me how to insert long-string URLs. Here's a repost of the earlier one:
www.mari.ee/eng/articles
/soc/2005/12/01.htm
Qizlar, check this out:
ReplyDeleteMusic:
http://compound-eye.org/fausto/
Films:
www.eurasianet.org/
central.asian.dvd/
announcement.shtml
"For example, you say Turks happily embrace your as "family." Do you welcome that embrace? Do you reciprocate? In a more or less "primitive" way?"
ReplyDeleteYes, I actually do. To me, there is something completely irresistible about Turks. I'm almost "positive racist" toward Turks, because behaviours that I would find appalling in representatives of any other ethnicity, such as extreme nationalism, male chauvinism, nagging and whining, etc., I find heart-wrenchingly endearing in Turks. Even the Young Turks can somehow make me go "aaaawww" if I don't watch out. When I read about that silly Durex survey, I went "aaaawww".
Thanks for the YouTube links. The first two made me laugh because they were so silly and the music was pathetic (though it's probably a gender thing - if they were boys, I would find them cute and immediately post them in Chirayliq ;o), but the one about Turkish women in security forces was great. The Turkish nationalism in it, of course, made me go "aaaaawww" ...
As for the URLs, you can use HTML tags. The one for URLs is as follows, just delete all the "#" next to the "<" and ">" tags:
<#a href="http://..."#>link text<#/a#>
Tinet-janim, maybe, looking at the context helps see the essence beneath superficialities. The music of the song by the lake may indeed be imperfect. However, the lyrics are not: they have survived centuries. The imperfections reflect not so much lack of talent but that of resources. Some day, those girls will get support from the likes of Hector Zazou and Peter Gabriel. Just like this singer did:
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/
watch?v=N5uYSiNWBNE
In the meantime, kudos to the girls for keeping their culture going under less than ideal circumstances.
The Durex survey, for all its shortcomings, raises an important question. Does a high number of sexual partners mean high virility? Or high volatility? What do you think?
May you should, indeed, sign up for some language courses. Then you can study first-hand "the realities of Istanbul", as Durex researchers put it. :)
The "aaaawww" factor may prove too strong on the ground, though. :)
Sorry for not making myself completely clear - certainly I was referring to the arrangement and the way it was presented, since I don't understand the lyrics due to a certain language barrier.
ReplyDeleteWhat I mean with "pathetic" is not necessarily musical imperfection, but much more the fact that the girls seem to be singing and dancing not for themselves, expressing their "true self", but they are trying to be cute, with a presumed male audience in mind, catering for the "male gaze".
Sevara Nazarkhan, on the other hand, is much more expressing her "true self" and singing for herself.
Maybe she started out a bit silly, like the other girls. I don't know anything about her career. But she had to have let out something of her "true self" in her singing, even when she still lacked resources, otherwise it's unlikely that she would have gotten the attention of the music people who would later support her.
And anyway, it is definitely possible to express your "true self" with very little resources. Punk rockers do it all the time. :o)
As for the Durex survey, I think that if anything, it tells something about the culture and attitudes towards sexual relationships. A high number of sexual partners doesn't necessarily mean volatility - it can also mean that casual sex without love is accepted and not seen as something negative, while romantic relationships are then considered to be something else entirely. Of course, the reasons probably vary highly from individual to individual.
As for "the realities of Istanbul" - I have already studied them quite closely on the ground, first hand, in the "Little Istanbuls" in Sweden and Germany. Even without speaking the language. ;o)
My post on Tatar music at Last.fm, if anyone's interested
ReplyDeleteOn some other issues in this discussion:
Everyone has their own personal taste, even when it comes to language, culture and genetics.
I get along well with Finns and feel strongly attracted by their neighbours, the Estonians, as well. Both the languages and the physical appearance of some (absolutely not all!) of them is very attractive to me. Especially the combination of blond hair, grey, deep-set eyes, high cheekbones, broad mouth and thick, straight hair is irresistible... There are plenty of Russians and even Tatars who also look like this. But there has to be an "Asian" character to the face - I don't find most Scandinavian faces particularly attractive. I like to see the same traits in Central and East Asian faces as well, but then of course with dark hair and dark eyes...
On Turkish vs. Tatar:
No matter how much I listen to Turkish, I just don't get the same taste for it as for Tatar. This is not a fault of the Turkish language or the Turkish people. This is simply the same reason why I appreciate French on a different level than Italian. French is an intellectual exercise; Italian is like eating lots of chocolate... and both are totally different from German, which I love because of its rough edges and soft core, much like German bread.
When I was born and my father held me in his arms, he spoke Tatar to me. He didn't even know what he was doing, because he had already started to forget it. Of course, I don't remember this consciously. But it would be a stretch of the imagination to assume that Turkish would ever have the same effect on me.
So let's by all means not limit this or any future projects on "one" nationality or (God forbid!) so-called "race" or "Altaic DNA" (what the heck is that anyway?! Sorry, it's a historian thing, I've seen too many ugly things in my sources. I just don't buy the idea of "Turkish genes" - as distinct from any of the neighboring nations. The Turks have been so good at embracing other nationalities and spreading their genes around the world that the whole idea of a separate Turkishness seems pretty absurd).
If I find a cute Italian living in Ulaan-Baatar, I'll post him here, by Jove!
Ainur: Your early experiences with the Tatar language might very well be a - if not the - reason for your emotional connection to the language. And the reason for why I, on the other hand, don't have that kind of special connection to Tatar language.
ReplyDeleteOf course, when I talk about Turks, I mean the Turkish culture (in the country Turkey), not the ethnicity. Ethnical Turks who don't behave like typical (stereotypical?) people of Turkish culture aren't as to-death-squeezably endearing, they're just normal people.
But I have no idea why I have this special relationship to Turks. People of Arab culture can also make me go "aaaawww", at least if they are male, and especially if they are French-speaking, and most of all if they are my former Arabic teacher Henry, and the same goes for representatives of some other cultures, but none provokes a reaction as extreme as Turks ...